Hmm. That has the makings of a long rant. Might write something tomorrow

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Email was meant to be decentralised. Thanks, Google, for fucking that up.

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I don't really fault anyone for sticking with Gmail and playing it safe. In addition, transitioning to a new provider is a massive effort if you're already "established"; your email address is the digital version of your street address and I think it's honestly more work to switch mail providers than it is to move houses.


The problem can only be fixed by people leaving ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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I am really beginning to sympathize with the disgust at Gmail. They love to throw small mail servers mail in to users junk folders, but on the flip side, hey they have no problem with hosting users that are blatantly spamming. Maybe they should fix their local problems before crap-canning outside mail servers that are sending them legitimate email?

@amolith I mean email specifically but tbh it's a whole ass load of things

tldr: same tbh. (I'm tired don't mind me)


One way to do it, is to just migrate to a better provider and forward all the emails from gmail (for example) to the new address, and slowly change all accounts

@selea It's that "slowly migrate" part that people don't want to deal with. I'm actually doing the same thing with pass and KeePass; if KeePass doesn't have it, pass fills the fields in, then KeePass offers to save the credentials for next time 👍


Yeah the slowly migrate part can take years, my migration took 3 years in total :(

@amolith @selea i converted my keepass csv export into pass, theres a nice tool for it

You're going from KeePass to pass but I'm going from pass to KeePass 😉

@wowaname @selea I just didn't really like some of the "vulnerabilities" it has with my setup and KeePass can be more convenient in some use-cases. Didn't like storing it in a remote repo and having usernames as the file names. Sure you can change that but I also really love KeePassDX on mobile; it is the most polished password manager I've ever seen.

@amolith @selea ah ok, i mitigate the filename issue by having my "remote" repo on my laptop. i have full disk encryption on my home devices

@selea @amolith

This is why you should use your own domain to avoid vendor lock-in

@amolith The issue is that, IMHO, back when Gmail was a closed beta, you could only get e-mail service from your ISP and a few other providers which offered ridiculously tiny storage amounts. Google changed that for the better, they offered a free e-mail service with copious amounts of storage. And I think it was our fault (us techies) when we pushed people to adopt Gmail back then. Just like how we pushed people to adopt Chrome. People are now used to free e-mail services.

@amolith not to mention most people don't use a password manager and e-mail is essentially the key to all your online services. Imagine telling a non-techie he has to migrate his hundreds of accounts because Gmail is somehow bad. It's an insane amount of effort for something that seems not that important.

I'm doing my part offering free e-mail service at my expense, and so are you. That's a good start.


You offer free email services?
Is it for IRL friends or Netizens too?

@selea for anyone really. I don't advertise it because signing up is a manual process for me, but sure, as long as you respect Spanish and French law, I have no issues with offering accounts as long as my server has space for people.

@L1Cafe @amolith gmail came after yahoo/hotmail/aol/netscape/msn etc.. people ditched that for gmail, they could do it again..

@amolith I'm using a personal domain specifically to avoid this dependency on a particular email provider.

@amolith don't forget the giant influx of new accounts. There's enough opportunity there alone. Hundreds of thousands of new gmail accts a month, I once read[citation needed].

Everything from to could simply not use gmail, without any migration issues.

I wanted to self-host my email, but it seems to be a tedious task - much more time consuming than self-hosting a website. Perhaps I'll get to it someday.

@amolith On a professional level, i always tell my customers to include my (private server) email into their gmail address lists. When they ask me why, i tell them that gmail censores their email to fuck competitors.

It's not like they are leaving gmail because of it, but the problem is mitigated, and they understand a bit more about the "gratis" tech they use every day.

@amolith When I left Gmail, I spent days if not weeks to change my email address on every website and service. The process requires big commitment

A friend who set up his own mail server goes straight-to-spam, because the filters depend mostly on whether or not you're known to anyone.

Moving doesn't sound that bad since you can download mail to export it, and forward mail. The 'reply' function will naturally gravitate your contacts to the new email address.

Wish I can do that but problem is when I email my friends with my email from server it's go straight to their junk folder and no one check the junk folder anymore... How do i make my e mail not go straight to junk folder?

@X One of the best services I've found for checking your email server is They'll show what DNS records you need to set up, TLS version, ciphers, all that stuff.


Or.... you can use the Delta chat app, and leverage the free space that Gmail allows.. 🤔

You get heaps of storage space, and Google gets heaps of encrypted messages they can't read, or do anything with.... 😆

@sylveon I used it for about a year and it was alright. Just not for me 😉

The problem with Google is that it's a privacy disrespecting company that dominates the email world. Protonmail is neither of those ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@amolith protonmail is nice IMO because it's got a decently well featured free tier and has a rather good UI

someone who uses gmail could easily be comfortable with it

only problem is that you have to pay to get IMAP which is dumb. at least you can use their fuckin proprietary mobile app
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